The below conversation was conducted live among three of our contributors on the topic of PBS and PBS Kids. You will see their initials next to their individual writing: AU for Ahmad Usufzy, TRJ for The Ratings Junkie, and RB for Rebecca Bunch. Feel free to sound off with your thoughts on the topic in the comment section!
AU: In a 214-212 vote, the House recently decided to cut funding for PBS. This leaves the future of the network in jeopardy. How do you respond to this?
TRJ: I think the network can survive, but it’s going to be tough financially. This money was already allocated for the next two years, so I’d presume the goal is to cease government funding entirely. That makes them rely on private sponsors and donations, and a lot of local affiliates aren’t able to.
RB: It’s hard to imagine that this alone would be enough to cause the complete downfall of PBS, but I do anticipate that things will be different moving forward. We’re probably going to see fewer shows being greenlit, and possibly see some of their older shows end as a result of the loss of funds. Though they have different financial models, it’s sort of similar to broadcast networks, where budget cuts caused fewer new shows to be ordered and led to an early demise for some shows that could have lasted a bit longer.
AU: I agree. It is not necessarily the death sentence that some outlets are making it out to be, as funding from the federal government only makes up 15% of their overall sum, but it is cause for concern for those who value public broadcasting.
TRJ: When news of potential funding cuts to PBS first broke, many opposed to the cuts used Sesame Street as the poster child for PBS. While it does still air on PBS, it’s ultimately a Max original, and soon to be Netflix. Excluding Sesame Street, what show if any do you think of as PBS’s poster child?
AU: That’s a good question. When it comes to their PBS Kids programming, Arthur is probably another recognizable figure, possibly a poster child given how much its humor is ingrained in internet culture. The program’s social media account is still quite active on all platforms, and they have been pushing the “Protect My Public Media” campaign heavily. The show recently wrapped up its run back in 2022, but reruns air regularly, and they have kept the brand alive through “The Arthur Podcast”.
RB: On the complete other end of the spectrum, I would say Downton Abbey is probably the most prominent PBS series, though it was produced by ITV in the UK and PBS only aired it stateside. It’s one of the few PBS series to win Primetime Emmys in the major categories in the 21st century, it remains popular to this day, inspiring a theatrical film trilogy, and the show was a cultural sensation back in the day, with over 13 million tuning in weekly at the height of its popularity.
TRJ: I can see why Sesame Street is being used as the poster child. Their most-viewed PBS Kids show is Daniel Tiger’s Neighborhood, which doesn’t have the same widespread recognition of a Sesame Street or an Arthur or Downton Abbey. It’s also a spinoff of Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, which was and still is culturally relevant. That’s not to take away from Daniel Tiger’s massive popularity, it’s just not the type of show that would play well in a political campaign.
AU: True. Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood is another one that feels like a poster child for the network. If Fred Rogers were still alive, I bet it would be pushed more, and Rogers himself might have tried to get involved politically like he did in 1969. As far as adult programming goes, they have had excellent documentary entries like “Nova” and “Nature”, as well as some interesting reality-lite programming like “Antiques Roadshow”, the latter was even referenced on “Arthur” under the moniker “Treasure Caravan”.
RB: Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood definitely has to be in the conversation when we’re talking about the network’s most important series. Though he’s been off the air for nearly twenty-five years, and he died not long after his show ended, he remains an enduring cultural figure who is pretty much universally-beloved. Movies are still made about him, including A Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood, for which Tom Hanks was Oscar-nominated. Many of today’s young adults aren’t old enough to have watched the show while it aired, but he did still manage to make an impact on them regardless. I think Bob Ross is a similar figure, where he’s remained very much a part of pop culture, and their popularity somewhat transcended past PBS. His Joy of Painting series ended over thirty years ago, and he’s as popular and famous as ever, with that series being available to steam today on Hulu.
TRJ: I’m seeing a trend here. PBS’s most recognizable shows are all programs that are no longer on the air. Do you think there would be more sympathy toward PBS had they found another Downton Abbey-sized hit?
AU: Definitely. If PBS had another “Downton Abbey” or PBS Kids found something that rivaled the popularity of “Sesame Street”, there would probably be a greater push to preserve funding. But we also have to remember that ongoing recognizable titles are scarce these days. If you ask someone to name a Fox series, for instance, they’ll probably cite something like “The X-Files”, not “Universal Basic Guys”.
RB: I think PBS itself remaining more prevalent in the cultural conversation would definitely make it harder to defund them. Obviously, people still watch, but they don’t really have any buzzy hits at this stage. These government cuts did push them back into the public conscience, and there has been plentiful outcry, but having a broad, wide-reaching hit would surely help their case, and make it a bit harder to claim that money used on PBS is “government waste.”
TRJ: Caillou, an old PBS Kids show, got the reboot treatment last year on Peacock. Other old PBS Kids shows like Teletubbies and Curious George have also come back in recent years. Do you think there are any other shows in the PBS Kids vault that should be looking at the reboot treatment?
AU: It’s definitely possible that other titles will get the reboot treatment. I wasn’t even aware that the Peacock episodes of “Curious George” served as a soft reboot of sorts. I think that is a rare case where the reboot actually held up relatively well when stacked up against the original. There was also the 2019 “Clifford” reboot, which I felt was nowhere near as good as the 2000 series that featured the vocal talents of John Ritter, Cree Summer, and Kel Mitchell. Looking into the future, there are reboots of “Sid the Science Kid” and “Dinosaur Train” in the works, both Jim Henson Company productions. I could see “The Berenstain Bears” getting a reboot, as that franchise seems overdue for another iteration.
RB: I think nostalgia is such a powerful factor that once-popular titles will continue to be brought back from the dead in an attempt to capitalize on it. Parents are more likely to put a show on for their kids that they have a sense of familiarity with, in an attempt to introduce them to favorites from their own past, and that’s what these reboots try to tap into. Whether those reboots will actually be successful, that’s something I’m sceptical of. Viewing habits have changed over the years, and today’s kids are no exception. They just don’t watch TV in the ways they once did, which is another problem PBS Kids - and all of the kids networks on cable - has been facing.
AU: Yes, kids are just not watching TV anymore. Variety released a “Most Watched Channels of 2024” article, and it was jarring to see the declines for networks aimed at children. Disney XD was down 44% year-to-year, and Teen Nick dropped by 53%.
TRJ: As much of a goldmine there is from decades’ past, I actually have a hard time seeing further reboots of PBS Kids shows. A lot of the streaming services are reducing if not completely exiting kids’ programming, as viewing habits shift primarily to YouTube. I think it says a lot that Ms Rachel is alive and well on YouTube while Blue's Clues & You (a long-form series) was pulled from Paramount+.
AU: I think if more get rebooted, they’ll land on other networks or streaming platforms, like with the “Caillou” revival. I am interested to see if the “Dinosaur Train” or “Sid the Science Kid” reboots end up on PBS or elsewhere. I’m not sure why these titles are being revived so soon, as both aired originals into the 2010s, but PBS has more data than I do, and it’s possible that they stream well.
RB: Let’s end things on a fun note and play a little game to cap this discussion off. We’ll list five classic PBS Kids titles - Between the Lions, Bill Nye the Science Guy, The Magic School Bus, Reading Rainbow and Zoom - and then each of us can decide which one must go, while we keep the other four.
AU: Those are all iconic titles. “Between the Lions” was an interesting fusion of sketch-comedy and puppetry, almost like “Sesame Street” for an older audience. “Bill Nye” is, of course, every science teacher’s favorite with a fun blend of science and zany humor. “Reading Rainbow” had the same calming feel as visiting your local library, and “Zoom” was another recognizable classic, at least before its SEO collapsed in 2020. I think I’ll have to get rid of “The Magic School Bus”. It was a good show with great lessons, but I never felt connected to the characters in the same way that I did with the other titles.
RB: Magic School Bus is a show I have fond memories of from my childhood, and I had several of the books as well. Bill Nye was a staple of my school science classes, and Reading Rainbow is another title I recall watching in school. Between the Lions isn’t a show I’m all too familiar with, but I’ve always loved puppets, so I’m sure I did catch it from time to time as a kid. So I think I’d have to go with Zoom here, which I’m the least familiar with and don’t have that nostalgic connection to in any way.
TRJ: I was never a huge Magic School Bus fan myself. It just never really clicked with me. So I would have to eliminate Magic School Bus here. I actually feel something like Zoom could work today if it got a second reboot, especially given the shift to short-form content in kids’ viewing habits. I’m not all that familiar with Between The Lions but can appreciate Reading Rainbow and Bill Nye as much as anyone else.